Hi Gold Duck. I like the way you think.

Imagine furnishing a home from scratch with things found for free or at garage sales and swap meets. It can be done tastefully if not in a hurry. And the savings could run in the thousands of dollars. I have done this with my home and have had a lot of fun while filling my want list. There are many odd pieces that I would never find in a store and some are antiques. This lends a uniqueness and personal touch to my home. Kitschy or eclectic or serendipitous; it’s up to the viewer.

One advantage of decorating this way is that if I see a piece that I like more than the one I am already using, I can sell the old one for more than I paid. That is, if I paid anything in the first place.

I think too much emphasis is placed on new things. It may be ego gratification or just pure snobbishness but it is a very expensive attitude. Wasn’t it fasTTcar that said that the most expensive perfume in the world is that new car smell ? By the way, my son has a car freshener and guess what ? It is called new car smell ! Maybe someone will make new house smell next. I’d pay a buck for that.

Booty is in the eye of the beholder.

Best wishes,

agnut

Re: The Red Paperclip

Thanks momopanda. Quite the horse trader/barterer. I noticed that no cash was used in this parlay from a paperclip to a house.

Trading directly from things of lesser value to things of greater value can be done. However, I see it as a much more difficult method of gaining value than buying and selling with cash as the intermediary. Directly trading one item for another requires two parties who can agree that the trade is fair and equitable. Otherwise it would not take place.

I don’t usually deal in this manner but I do remember one instance where it was necessary.

Many years ago I dealt with a company that wanted all the transmission cores I could find. They had to be of a certain type and model. They would pay me $1500 each if I could find them. I knew of a wrecking yard that also rebuilt late versions of this transmission. I knew that the owner had 40 of the early transmissions I needed but he would not sell them at any price. He said he didn’t sell many but might need them someday. I listened to him as he lamented that he couldn’t sell more of his late rebuilt transmissions because he didn’t have enough cores to rotate through his sales program.

I went back home and thought about it and ordered 10 late model transmissions for $300 each that I figured he needed. I then loaded my truck with these 10 transmissions and returned. I backed my truck into his rear driveway and went into his office to talk to him. He was very busy but as I talked to him, I began walking toward my truck with him. I rested my arm on the side of my truck bed and continued talking about some other parts I wanted. His gaze wandered to the contents of my truck and I could see the lights come on as he realized just what these late transmissions meant to his business. I watched him as he recognized each late model. I could see the wheels turning as he calculated their potential. He then asked me what I intended to do with these transmissions. I told him that I would either rebuild them myself or break them down for selling the individual parts. He offered to buy them all. Now the shoe was on the other foot.

I told him that I might trade him for the transmissions he had, explaining that he got wrecked cars all the time with these early transmissions and he didn’t need the 40 he had laying around. He could easily replace them. And the reason he had 40 units was that there wasn’t enough demand for them.

He thought about this for a minute and agreed to trade 4 of his transmissions for each one of mine. I drove home with a grossly overloaded truck and sold them to my waiting buyer.

So I started with $3000 and ended up with $60,000 in a matter of a few days. Even after taxes, it came to a considerable sum for a little brain work.

So what happened here ? I found out what the other party desperately needed. He was rich and didn’t need money. He needed what he couldn’t find on his own. I also knew that he could sell these late transmissions after rebuilding them and get cores back and continue to exchange units many times. I also knew that he was turning away customers continually because of the lack of these late units. A painful daily event. Being able to supply customers is foundational to any business. I had struck a raw nerve.

He was happy, I was happy. It was the finding out what he really wanted that made the deal.

I only mention this transaction to illustrate the convoluted path we may have to take in order to negotiate a trade without cash as the intermediary. Additionally, these types of trades are merely an additional tool one may use when cash won’t work. They are not a mainstream way of dealing unless we ever get to the point that dollars are not accepted at all. And God help us if that happens.

Anyone remember the Tony Randall and Debbie Reynolds movie “The Mating Game” ? It was about a country father who bartered for most everything he owned. Debbie Reynolds was the farmer’s daughter trying to seduce/ distract Tony Randall who was the IRS tax man intent on finding out how much the government was due. It was a late 50s comedy and to say more would spoil it.

Best wishes,

agnut

A ten + bagger. Even mo’ betta.

It sounds like you have thought of all the things necessary to protect yourself. You can’t be too careful when dealing in real money itself. I remember one coin store where the owners carried Glocks on their belt.

Storing precious metals in several locations is a wise move. Makes it what I call an Easter egg hunt from Hell.

Your posts have me wondering if a full time job could be created from advertising that you are buying precious metals. There may also be some sterling silver to be had. There are already firms advertising that they will buy precious metals. When the prices rise more, there will probably be several more firms competing like in 1979-80.

The local coin shop buys sterling silver and sends it to the refiner. I asked them and they would sell it to me but I don’t think the price would be low enough. That’s at a price comparable to what I have gotten it from Ebay. I just hate to see beautiful antique sterling silver being melted like scrap metal.

Best wishes,

Agnut

That thought has crossed my mind a lot lately, as I enjoy this much more than my "real" job. But, with 4 kids and a mortgage, I am not ready to give it up yet. It is a nice little sideline, along with a couple others that keeps some cash going into supporting the needs of my family.

I have a couple concerns about going full out in the business. One is, I have no doubt this will happen someday, that many others will get into this business locally, and it will drive the margin out of it. As I posted previously, I did not reveal this little business to the board until I had a competitor jump in. As things go on, more and more people will probably get into it. I also believe that to be truly in the business, you have to widen your offering on the other end, which I have no interest in. My goal starting out was to build a stash of exclusively name brand .999 gold and silver and junk. Everything else gets sold ASAP. While I have bought, and continue to buy, sterling and gold jewellery (there is some fantastic money in gold chains and rings, all you need is a scale and a buyer at the other end), as well as non silver coin sets, I sell those immediately, usually within hours of purchase, for either cash or bullion.

Secondly, while I do believe that I will always be the proud, albeit quiet, owner of some PM's, I am really just in this for the bull run, which I see ending anywhere from 2 - 6 years out. The money is to be made on the front end of it, IMHO, the old buy low, sell high. Also, by staking my claim early, I will get the benefit of name recognition. In my ads, I always list my first name and phone number. I already have had a few calls from people who cut my little ad out 6 months or more ago and are now ready to sell.

While I do not believe that this venture will be my final and future profession, I do believe that it will substantially contribute to my net worth in the long term.

Best wishes,
fasTTcar

P.S. I am really excited about an upcoming auction around here this week. A pawn shop, who had a bunch of coins that he did not want to sell last month at any price, went broke. Depending on how they break up the lots, I may also be in the power saw, air conditioner, lawn trimmer business next week. He had scads of them, and my bet is that they will be sold as groups. If so, and I can pick up a bunch of them for a couple hundred bucks a lot, I may be putting a bunch more ads in the paper shortly. Wish me luck.

__________________

If you can, read up on the 1992-95 Civic VX hatchback. It's gas, not diesel, but it gets 45-55 mpg and still has around 95hp, which is a lot more than the old VW diesels get. I'd imagine a fleet of VX civics would be good as gold in about ten years' time. Good cars in every respect.

__________________
"Belief is the wound that knowledge heals."
- Ursula K. LeGuin

QWAK,agnut,I have found 4 oz. SOLID GOLD braclets ally shoping and I still have a pouch full of Mexican coins I found back when I was SCROUNGING! Lots of painted over antiques if you knew what to look for, QUALITY lasts ---- I HATE PARTICAL BOARD!!!!!

Some one posted this on another thred and I was about to post it to a yahoo board but will post it here too.

This is the sOOOOOooo close to being ME back in 79 IT'S SCAREY! :afraid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCuG17Cp8Zc

Basicly I adapted and learned to live BENEATH my income (damned hard to do) once that became MY estblished NORM time and just geting it done GOT it DONE!

What I have aint great but it IS what I make of it over time puting SOME of ME in to ever bit of it! Since VALUE is created by human effort and life time spent this place is PRICELESS to ME! And it's PAYED FOR!!!!! HE HE HE :albertein

the DUCK

__________________
"ALL is ONE" What we DO to and FOR others we DO "TO and FOR" our selves ultimitly!

People SELDOM look for TRUTH! What they look for is CONFERMATION that what they have chosen to believe IS TRUTH! This is why people will believe almost ANY THING and also WHY the WORLD is SO MESSED UP!

IT is never realy OVER -- things just CHANGE!

You can QUOTE me on ALL! It IS what I believe to be TRUE!

I AM, the DUCK

that's way better than a 10 bagger.....that's a motherinlaw bagger!!!

congrats!

Hi fasTTcar. My head is still spinning from answering a post on the latest silver musing. I think I bit off more than I can chew with having two threads going at the same time. This silver musing will slide off into the archives in a bit but this bartering and horse trading thread will continue on until we are all exhausted from racking out brains with ways to save money, make money and wisely use money. Yeah, like that’s going to happen soon.

I also expect that this PM bull will continue for years. Better to have two steps forward and one backward in the climb to the top rather than to experience a parabolic blow off. I will continue to add to my stash as much as I am able. Right now I can’t with a new business opening next week.

I have to admire your guts in starting this precious metal dealing sideline. It could work into a full time thing but I wouldn’t give up my day job. I know that you are fully aware that it is hit or miss and the future could work against you in your being able to acquire enough bargains. It’s just a very sweet deal you have going right now. I would love to hear more as you continue to scoop up the deals.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. In a post to the current silver musing, I provided an address to an article that I think we all should read. It confirms the reason that we are preparing for a problematic future. It sounds like we are on the right track in our thinking. I really respect this advisor; his is the only website I pay for advice.

An article by Chris Laird that is on topic to this silver musing :


First Inflation Then Deflation ? - Financial Crash

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...ird022207.html


Comments ?

Hi buff01. I agree with you that this car is a good value as long as you don’t have to rebuild the driveline due to extreme high mileage. It sounds like the MPG is about the same as the VW diesel.

The advantage that I appreciate most is that diesel fuel can be stored for years without it turning to varnish like gasoline will. I know that there are preservatives for gas as well as diesel but believe that the diesel will survive long storage better. I have stored diesel for three years and it worked fine in a VW Rabbit diesel I owned then.

Additionally, diesel fuel is not as flammable as gasoline. The saying is that you can throw a match in diesel and it will put the match out. I feel better storing quantities for the long term around my garage.

A local mechanic has been making biodiesel fuel for his cars and said that it costs less than a dollar a gallon to make. I don’t know if I would ever do this but the option is there.

There is another interesting characteristic of diesel cars; ignition by compression instead of spark plugs. My type of diesel does not have electronics and therefore an EMP burst would not affect its ability to run. However, most gas powered cars have electronic ignition and would not operate in such a scenario. If you saw the recent War Of The Worlds, almost all of the cars and their owners were stranded as a result of this electric surge. I know life isn’t sci-fi but an EMP burst is a small possibility and I would hate to be stranded.

I am not criticizing your opinion; I think it is smart to have as high mileage a car as reasonably possible. I am looking at it from a survivalist standpoint in a variety of possibilities. It is just a backup car in case I may need it.

I also may seem a bit touched in the head with two Jaguar XJ6 sedans but I have owned several in the past and worked at a Jaguar dealership. These two Jaguars were so cheap that I couldn’t resist. They are worth more as parts cars than I paid. I may regret having them but am willing to take the risk in trade for the fun they are to drive. However, I may dump them in the next year if they begin to claw at my pocketbook. No kitty is that cute !

Best wishes,

agnut

P.S. I’m glad you brought up the topic of cars since it is to be discussed (disgust) in depth here. Automobiles are second to housing in expenses for many Americans and it needn’t be so.

Hi Gold Duck. I like the way you put it. You put some of yourself into your finished produck.

This has not been covered so far and should be as many items for sale, or for free for that matter, will need some imagination and elbow grease to add value. I guess I am doing this myself on a produckion line. I get old, dirty, broken transmissions and add new parts as well as some good used parts with a liberal amount of elbow grease. Voila ! A rebuilt transmission. My elbow grease is worth over $60 per hour after my produck is sold.

The reason I have begun this business it twofold. First, my older son said that he wanted to learn auto mechanics and have a needed skill. And second that I need a steady income to pay the monthly bills as well as save for the future. A business specializing in one specific produck has the advantage of deep concentration in this produck. There is a specific market out there for my produck and I can focus on these potential customers. I have sized up the competition and can easily beat them at their own game. This is what I call taking away some of their market share for myself.

I will never get rich in this specialization but expect to make enough profit to live comfortably and save for the future. It is this being able to save for the future that is my ultimate goal since I know of the precious metals and their potential. I also plan to lay in a quantity of other items that I think will hold or increase their value in our uncertain future.

There was a neighbor lady who found antique furniture and refinished it. One time she found an old desk that was in sad state. She paid $100. By the time she had applied her elbow grease, she made $1,900 profit. She saw the potential value and had the fortitude (guts if she were a guy instead) to invest in what she believed.

It is important that we believe in ourselves. By doing, we gain confidence and experience. Some finished producks make good profits and some make great profits. On the other wing, a poorly planned purchase can yield either no profit or even a loss. I have rarely experienced a loss in all my dealings and I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Lots to gain and nothing to lose. Except your ignorance.

What I am trying to say is that going forth and taking chances in deal making is actually easier than it seems to someone who hasn’t tried it before. They look at deal making and lack the confidence and then think that they might fail. When in reality, that fear of failure is mighty in keeping them from advancing upward in their lives. Might fail is mighty in keeping them down. It is a big negative way of thinking and must be taken apart and examined in order to understand that it is a great falsehood.

So how do readers find the courage to take the risk of making their first deal ? By understanding what I just said; nothing ventured, nothing gained. Most people out there feel trapped by their inability to advance their lives. They need to understand that there are all kinds of highly successful people with nothing more than a third grade education. Thinking that they have to be some kind of genius in order to make deals successfully is a TOTAL mistake. It isn’t higher education and it isn’t a high I.Q. that is needed but only good common sense and an unquenchable desire to better their lives. For without common sense and desire, a person will stay where they are in life. They are their own worst enemy. I can’t help someone who makes excuses as to why they won’t try. They are actually trying to justify their continuing their sorry state. I don’t buy it and I won’t give them quarter.

So if someone is seriously retarded or clinically lazy, I would let them off the hook. Everybody else that is not deal making is fair game to me. Lemme hear the excuses ! Bring ‘em on ! I’ll knock ‘em silly.

Everyone reading this must realize that they are already making deals throughout every day of their lives. They get up in the morning. A deal to be conscious. They have breakfast. A deal with their body. They go to work. A deal with their employer. They go shopping for groceries. A lot of deals with the grocer. They come home and relax. Another deal with their body but also with their sense of feeling defeated as opposed to the perceived risk to try to better their lives. So they typically turn on the boob tube to forget their plight. Big mistake. They should be thinking of what they should do to make them feel in control of their lives. Turn off the boob tube; it is making a boob of you. What has it ever done to help you except as a place to hide from your unhappiness ?

They should at some point be thinking of how they can change their situation for the better. That is, unless they are happy remaining on the tracks with a freight (or is that fright) train coming. I strongly feel that we are in for tremendous changes and learning this horse trading and bartering may well make the difference between bare survival and relative prosperity. The skills is what is important whether you make a lot of money or a little. That will depend on your desire to apply yourself. The deals are out there waiting for someone, anyone to see their potential for profit and savings.

A penny saved is two pennies that were earned, before taxes that is. And venturing into deal making is an investment in yourself.

Deal making is one of the most fun things I do. For the life of me I can’t understand why everyone doesn’t see and do it. Of course, I’m not complaining because if everyone were doing it, there wouldn’t be all the opportunities out there. I do hope that the relative few you who read this and come aboard to enjoy the financial freedom ride with me.


Best wishes and QUAK !

agnut

People all over the world are making deals all the time. It is a great portion of human activity and desperately needs to be made aware to readers. There is absolutely no reason to be afraid of taking some of this profit for yourself.

There are deals where the profit can be many times the investment. Like the 20 bagger as an example. Don’t expect them to come along all the time. They may only appear once in a blue moon but you need to be ready to recognize their potential and act on them when you feel confident that your downside risk is minimal and upside profit is tremendous.

Now I know this seems like gambling. Well, it is. But with intelligent consideration, you have stacked the odds greatly in your favor. The casinos in Vegas would love to have these odds on their side as well as the multiple returns. But they only gain a few percent on the average each time, depending upon which game the suckers are playing. When I went to Vegas myself, I always took a few rolls of nickels and played the 5 way slot machines. I knew that I was going to lose my rolls of nickels eventually and only looked upon this as entertainment. I got to watch others playing and that was half of the fun. I think many of them also realized that to play the quarter slots or dollar slots only took their money all the quicker. I never did find the penny slot machines; must have been an urban legend. The point is that I don’t really gamble since the odds are stacked against me but only look at it as entertainment.

My real casino is out there in the real world where I can calculate the odds in my favor simply by using my head. Anyone can play this game if they have the desire.

When you go to a dealership to buy a new car you are at their casino. Can you make a profit ? No, you will lose thousands of dollars the minute you leave the lot.

I have owned hundreds of cars in my life and never owned a new car. The only time I wanted a new car was when I was at the Mercedes museum in Stuttgart where they had a couple of the new gullwing Mercedes on display. They said they were going to produce them and I returned home, planning how I would raise the money. This was back in 1974 and I was young and impetuous then. But even then I had factored in the potential for this car to increase in value over the years. I planned to buy a gullwing and put it in storage for several years. A new radically designed car like this rarely comes along and since then I have not had any urge for any other car. They never did produce that gullwing car and it was probably the best for me since I was young and not in a position to sit on such an investment for several years.

I grew up relatively poor with one change of clothes. The floor was wooden and had only a single bed with a lamp by the bed to study by. My dad was an enlisted Navy man who came up through the ranks as I grew up. When I was 14, I lived in a laundry room in the back of an apartment. Not until I was 16 did life really open up for me when my dad got stationed in Hawaii where he ran the aircraft repair facilities at an early warning base. We lived on the channel that led into Pearl Harbor for two years. I could make money babysitting, mowing lawns and delivering newspapers. By the way, I consider all of these linear working. That is, what someone does without imagination. Most people do this throughout their lives.

Throughout my life I have been worth over a million bucks a couple of times and broke several times. But I have never lost my spirit of hope for the future. And looking back, my happiest times were when I was starting a new venture. When I was the most well off I was the least happy with my life. The problem is that I hadn’t yet learned to control my finances. With a lot of money sitting around I expanded the house, put in a pool, bought a greyhound bus and spent 2 years in converting it, a 6 car garage, and several other unnecessary expenditures. I am mentioning this to show you that making a lot of money at one end can be easily dissipated at the other end. It is not easy to make a lot of money AND not change your lifestyle dramatically. This only comes with financial maturity. The vision of betterment needs to be complete in your mind, from beginning to end.

The necessity of a college education to have a better life has been ingrained in the population for a long time. But lately I have been reading of college graduates who couldn’t find a job in their field of study and had to take minimum wage work. Additionally, they had run up big education loans. What were they thinking ? Were they listening to others or thinking for themselves ? Another form of linear working but with the added slavery of burdensome debts. I don’t encourage my sons to go to college except to take classes they have an interest in. Education should be enjoyable, not a grim task in order to make more money. My sons are both learning bartering and horse trading with me and any college classes they want are open to them.

I’m not against education. In fact, I’m all for it. But formal education such as college doesn’t guarantee that you will succeed as a result. There are many wealthy Americans with no more than an elementary school education. Think about that. How did they get so rich ? In the school of hard knocks, dealing in the real world. Actually I don’t like the term “school of hard knocks” because it implies a hard and painful time in learning. Most of my deals have been easy and liberating.

So buying the B.S. (no, not the degree, although if the shoe fits…) that higher education is necessary to get ahead and the lie that dealing in the world is a school of hard knocks is a carrot AND a stick philosophy used to herd the masses into the education mill to be ? Wait for it…. that’s right, grist for the mill. And grist is grain like wheat for instance. Wheat before being ground can be stored almost indefinitely but after having been through the grinder, the flour has to be used soon or it goes bad. Unfortunately, the college and its professors by way of their collection agency are collecting the wheat and leaving the husk. The athletic system Of Nebraska goes by the name Huskers. Don’t tell me the educators lack a sense of humor. Yeah, I know I twisted and distorted somewhat to make a point. So sue me. The graduates’ real education begins when he has to look for a job and learns the most expensive lesson of all.

It was in my early 20s when I realized that the auto repair shops I was working for made most of the money. I started my own repair shop and have owned several since. I could tell you some of the crazy things that happened through my early life but they wouldn’t add to your knowledge which I am trying to impart in this thread. But I have been changed for the better by my getting out there and seeking what I wanted instead of being squashed between rising prices and lagging wage increases. In fact, that is what we have been experiencing and will continue to experience at an increasing rate as far as I can tell.

The world is a wild and wooly place and you won’t have memories to look back upon if you don’t get out there and rub shoulders with others. One deal sometimes leads to another by these connecting with others. Working at a Monday to Friday 9 to 5 job that you hate is a form of slow death of the human spirit. I am not recommending that you quit this job but use it as a financial stability until you learn horse trading and bartering and feel confident that you are far better off on your own. As I understand, Masonic Plot deals full time and seems quite happy with his life. It may not be for everyone to be self employed but the opportunity is there. At least, I encourage everyone to learn to do this on a part time basis for extra income and savings.

There is a great deal of freedom when you know what you are doing and on your own. You can work as hard as you want or take some time off at your discretion. You are your own boss. Just don’t be your own slave driver in the quest to make a fortune. It is all a matter of balancing your needs with your income.

If you have read through this thread, you may have picked up that bartering and horse trading needs to be a win-win situation. An increased income, increased knowledge, a feeling of regaining control of your life should all be a part of the package. My goal is to show you that you can be nobody’s fool and stretch your dollars far beyond where you now spend. This is life changing stuff. Once you begin on this path I will guarantee that you can never go back. Once you lose your ignorance, you can’t get it back. It is a one way street. Also, you will later wonder why you hadn’t done this earlier.

So there are 10 baggers and even better out there. But they aren’t the mainstream, just the icing on the cake. Isn’t it about time to slice a piece for yourself ?

Best wishes,

agnut

About time I got off my dead butt and continued this thread. I have not posted in 4 days and have been busy with rebuilding transmissions. Funny, my 60th birthday was last Friday and I went in and rebuilt two transmissions. Sunday I rebuilt two more. So you can see that I am not a 9 to 5 slave but work when I feel like it. And I feel like it almost all the time. So far I have 12 rebuilt units and have another 12 apart and waiting to be cleaned in the jet clean machine. My son and I have been making specialized tools to make each operation faster and easier. Time consuming now but it will pay off in faster rebuilding. Also I am a lot happier knowing that the many operations necessary will not be a pain in the ass. I am happy to go to work now whereas I dreaded it before. These specialized tools have made all the difference. Ever try to rebuild a transmission with a just a hammer and a screwdriver ? That’s about the way I felt before. The same applies to deal making. We all need the specialized mental tools to profit as well as enjoy ourselves. Deal making should be fun, not a drudge.

The reason I am mentioning my business is that some readers may be interested in starting their own small business. What I explain about the inner workings may give some insight into their own ideas about some other small business. This is the backbone of American business, not the huge corporations.

First, you need to define what level of deals you are wanting. Buying records at garage sales and then selling them on Ebay has limitations unless you strike a gold mine of rare records.

At the other end of the spectrum could be buying out a defunct company’s inventory or a large estate. Another possibility could be to find someone in distress who is selling a car or boat for dirt cheap.

Masonic Plot cleans up items and presents them in a positive manner. He has added value to the item. This is true of almost everything you may buy to later sell at a profit.

Look on Craigslist in your local area and you may find some bargains. Good place to sell too.

Look at the newspapers for estate sales. I know of one member who buys industrial overstocks and does quite well.

Find out the demand and value of something like old engines that racers will pay high prices for. They could be big blocks or early hard to find cylinder heads or early race accessories. I don’t do this myself but have heard that there is quite a bundle to be made if you know what you are doing. Some of the big old cars of the 60s had desirable engines. I wish I could help you more here but I am specializing in setting up a production line for rebuilt VW 5 speed transmissions. My shop landlord owns a machine shop and is an old timer and really knows about the value of some of the early engines and parts. You may ask a local machine shop owner or a speed shop or the local race club members. You may also look on Ebay to get some selling price references for these engines and parts.

It takes research to find out about prices and demand but this is foundational to deal making. I have bought storage containers of old engines and tools in the past and done quite well with them. Watch the storage containers that come up for auction at local self storage companies. I have heard of some of the moving companies’ auctions for abandoned lots that may also be profitable.

If your area is depressed, you may have more bargains there than in prosperous areas. Use this to your advantage. The thing is to buy items that you can sell outside of the area for higher prices.

I talked to Ponce the other day and he brought up a good point. Say a high quality bicycle that was $250 new 5 years ago is now selling used for $50 now. Maybe it has only been ridden a few times and is in near new condition. That $250 paid 5 years ago would be equivalent to maybe $350 today, thanks to inflation. So you are picking up a bike that would cost $350 today for $50 or maybe less after haggling. Personally I like the high end items as they were well build and hold their value better than buying 5 cheap bikes and trying to sell them for a similar profit. Many years ago I bought a nice Peugeot P-10 for $100 and rode the heck out of it for a couple of years and then sold it for $200.

Of course, I would always haggle about the price for the bike and maybe get it for $35 or add in some other items the seller had and make a package deal. At garage sales I often do this; gather several items together and ask for a reduced price. It almost always works. The sellers are happy to see many items leaving rather than one at a time. But of course, I am only buying items that are each good bargains or things I really need or can sell for a healthy profit later.

Every thing you buy should be with the thought of what it would be worth when selling it later, whether you are wanting it for your own use or as a quick turn profit deal. It is a state of mind that works for you. I bet 99% of consumers out there don’t buy with this attitude and that is why there are so many bargains out there. All the better for us.

People who live in the more expensive neighborhoods are my favorite sellers. Often they don’t care what something sells for; they just want it off their property. Also their items are usually top end merchandise which I can later sell for a better price and profit. They are also easier to make package deals with.

The other day I was in the local dollar store and saw a couple of books that were $23 and $25 new. I am planning to buy all of them for my younger son who I am helping start a book selling business. I bought one of each to get the ISBN numbers. I looked on ABEbooks and they sell for about $12 and higher plus shipping. My son can undercut the price to $10 and still make a 10 bagger. All he has to do is sell 10% of these books and then he has his original investment back for more deals and 90% of the books still in his inventory. The same applies to old vinyl records of which I have hundreds. Some I paid as little as a nickel (no, not the real nickel coins but paid for with paper dollars, getting back valuable change for my coin hoard). I will never get up to Ponce’s five 5 gallon water jugs of change but am trying. By the way, he said that he was in his garage the other day and found an old ammo box and tool box that were very heavy. Yep, that’s right, they were full of old change from many years ago.

These books are a small deal but I am teaching principles here to my son. These same principles are the same, whether in making a $100 deal or a $100,000 deal. And surprisingly, it often takes about the same work to complete the bigger deal.

The point here is that we shouldn’t be afraid of larger deals. In fact, we should be looking forward to these larger deals as they can make a great difference in our lives. For they are merely a progression upward as we learn the rules for successful deal making. What is the difference between a $10 bicycle that could be sold for $50 and a Harley motorcycle in a basket for $500 that can be sold for $2500 ? I know, many will say that I am crazy here. Where can anyone find a Harley in a basket for $500 ? They do show up from time to time when people are desperate and need the cash; all kinds of items do. So don’t get hung up on this one example of a Harley motorcycle. Jeez, I know that I have struck a raw nerve here; I can feel it even before I post this.

So let me give you a blast from the past. I bought a Jaguar Mark II for $10 and fixed it up and sold it for $5,000. In fact I did two of them but I paid $300 for the second one and sold it as well for $5,000. Later I bought a 1956 Jaguar XK 140 roadster in a basket for $350 and later sold it for $7500. But in all honesty I put an incredible amount of work and money into it. I would have been better to have parted it out and moved on. My error here was that I became emotionally involved. So don’t fall in love with your merchandise.

What I am saying is that just buying a bargain is only part of the process. You must know what the item can be easily sold for. This may take some research and I am guilty of sometimes buying without first researching. But when items are for sale at what looks to be ridiculous prices and I think I can “stab a fat hog in the ass”, I go for it. I can’t recall when I have lost when doing this. Maybe it is my experience, but I tend to believe it is more my gut feeling and go for it attitude. I have the curiosity of a cat and want to see what happens if I buy something that looks too good to be true. Funny how they turn out to be truly good.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. Maybe I should give details of garage sales and estate sales next. After that, cars and boats. And after that, the only limitations are your imagination. Picking up $57 grand for a day’s work was a bit extreme but if I didn’t try, I wouldn’t fly.

Wow it just poped in my head affter i finished reading your post i was thinking about Intuition, I'ts just as important in business as it is in other settings. You’d be amazed at how many gigantic corporate deals are green-lighted or red-lighted because of some CEO’s gut feeling. While you might think that logic is the language of business, that’s far from reality. If you base all your business deals on hard logic and ignore your intuition, most likely you’ll be in for a world of hurt.
We humans aren’t very logical to begin with. We simply don’t have enough data to make truly logical decisions because business deals depend on human beings, and we don’t have a logical system for accurately predicting human behavior. Not being able to predict how other humans will behave is a pretty big gap in my logic. And intuition has to fill that gap. The real performance of human beings is what makes or breaks business deals. But to assume everyone will perform as expected is unrealistic in the extreme. No deal ever goes perfectly.

It’s hard to say no to a deal that seems juicy by the numbers when my gut is saying, “You’ll regret it,” but more often than not, I later see evidence my intuition was right all along. Sometimes I just get a bad read on someone, and then years later, several people I know are complaining about being ripped off by that person.

Intuition is a critical part of the decision-making process in business. Since business deals depend on relationships, you need to get a read on the other people involved in any deal you consider. If you get a bad read, walk away. If you get a good read, "proceed with caution". Thanks for the good advice
agnut, If i did not read this thread i would not have thought about it.

__________________
Silver Gorilla
{Investing in Precious Metal Silver} "Within our lifetime, Nothing this good will ever stare you in the face again". Its all about Silver

agnut,

I am going to throw one here, now that you are this far along in the progression. You have heard agnut talk many times of where and how to find bargains, and turn them into gains.

I used to go to construction auctions frequently, or office supply type mixed auctions. You never know what is there.

This particular time, I found what appeared to be a mountain of office dividers, you know, the cubicles. All boxed up and brand new. Panel after panel, box after box of these things. Had been around for a very long time unsold. There were some types more fancy than others, and some were just simple cloth styles, missing the partition posts.

I bought it all for a song. Now the trouble started, how to move this mountain? I rented some labor and some Ryder trucks, loaded the things up, and brought 'em back to the shop.

Then I started to sort them, some were the expensive 1/2 glass enclosures, and some were full corner kits, etc. I sold off all of the kits, and top end panels individually and made enough to cover all costs.

I still had this mountain of panels, but I knew something no one else did. 1/2 of these were framed in extruded aluminum. Wonderful stuff for recycling. So I stripped out the aluminum from those panels, and burnt what was left. That is where the real profit was made, selling off the aluminum extrusions for recycle. The balance of the panels, after not selling for a period, were scrapped and burnt.

Man, did I get a bunch of aluminum out of those silly old panels.

Funny thing was, no one was bidding, as they were thinking the same thing I was, how to move them, how to store them, how to sell them. They missed the real value in them.

Great thread agnut.

btw,
I think are the best quotes of the thread and appropriate to the forum at large.

Many here are going to do great with pm's, and many will enrich their lives without losing their hard earned gains. But, there will be those, that will make a bundle, and turn around and lose it also. Much like you hear of lotto winners and the like.

If your financial horizon is limited, so too will be your ability to act and react once a windfall does come. You will feel guilty without ever knowing it, and be doing your darndest to revert back to your former life.

The time is now to learn, and expand your monetary horizons, so when that day comes, you will know exactly how to act and react. You will know exactly how to turn those gains into further gains. In other words, your future will be golden, instead of fraught with peril.

Best to all,

__________________

everything that you do which requires active participation, will not make you rich. whether you're a plumber an accountant a lawyer or a doctor, most of those professions are just high paid wage-slaves and will not be rich. doctors, if they are specialists, can get there working by the hour, but not most of them.

to become rich you have to own something that works for you. land, or patents or copyrights, or a business, something like that. land is the easiest to watch.

but I am always looking for cash flows. I dont want to just buy low and sell high. I am looking for where is the money that flows with other people buying and selling. like not just ebay sellers but think of ebay. not just the flea market vendors but the flea market promoters. or for example think of how coin vendors make money. screw the spot price, they are making money off the commission, off the flow. like stockbrokers. if you can FIND a cashflow that has not yet been identified and routinized and exploited by specialists, then you got yerself an idea worth following up on. but then you got to figure out how to strip it out of whatever it's bundled up with, and then figure out how to exploit it, then figure out how to build a business where you train other people to do it for you. then you go do it and you become rich.

that is the broker mentality. I know the crowd here is production and labor oriented, I can tell. I am too. I dont like "parasites." but "in this global economy" these are the bastards who are making really nice money. people who can identify, strip, and specialize in exploiting cash flows with some passive system that doesnt waste their entire day operating it.

the funny thing is there is a niche of commercial/investment banking that specializes in this too, or rather, expoiting the exploiters, so to speak. I forget what the hell it is called. But they will buy a stream of income from a business for a certain amount of years and discount it and hand them a check. like say buy the future ballgame revenues from a ballclub, for next ten years, discount it by some interest guess, and hand them a check. now maybe that is a big check, so they have to chop it up and bring in a bunch of other banks for a slice of the action. and the bank that sells the whole package gets fees on top of their interest play. what the hell is this called, anybody know?

Wow ! Three meaty posts within two hours. Thanks Silver Gorilla, Scorpio and Anty Ep. I will respond to each of your posts as soon as time permits. They each deserve lengthy responses and will get them, especially since I never learned how to be brief.

There is so much to say and learn that sometimes my head spins. No wonder that it has been said only one in a thousand will get through a worldwide financial crash relatively unscathed.

Recently I was concerned that this thread would lose momentum but your posts show that we have a long way to go. We have passed passive deal making such as shopping wisely and are finishing up garage sale/estate sale dealing. The bigger deals are next on the radar and then readers are free to be unleashed on an unsuspecting world !

Actually, bartering and horse trading (deal making) is a way of life. It so thoroughly permeates daily consciousness to the point that all human activity focuses on responsible allocations of money and time. Even sitting here writing this post I am aware of several things that will have to be done today in order to further my goals. And what are these goals ?

Security for my loved ones is top of the list. All other goals are subordinate to this purpose. In an uncertain world we can only depend on uncertainty itself. I can’t really say to embrace uncertainty but rather to understand relative risks and mitigate them as much as possible. Just this morning I told my older son that I am doing the best I can with the resources I have to prepare our family as much as possible. I also told him that I will only be able to prepare to the extent that in a calamity we will lose as little as possible. I am not rich at this point in my life but I still even have diversifications within diversifications for further insulation from this uncertainty. They may prove to be most valuable depending how the house of cards fall. Maybe a silver musing article would better explain what I mean.

The recent stock market volatility has shown the fragility of our system as several financial writers have come to the fore and focused on this.

I recommend these current articles :

Derivatives Are Competing With Gold! - Moore
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...ore030607.html

Today’s Avalanche Forecast - Hathaway
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...way030607.html

The Damage Has Been Done - Laird
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...ird030607.html

Gold & Silver Report - Gnazzo - Mar 7
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...zzo030507.html

DENIAL - Dr Baltin - Mar 7
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...tin030507.html

How (not) to fix the subprime mortgage collapse - Ash - Mar 7
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/ash030507.html


There are many other articles I read daily but these contain some interesting information that I thought we all should be aware of. There are some great charts too regarding silver and gold. Bon appetit.

Gotta go make some moolah.

Best wishes,

Agnut

makes the most sense of anything i've read recently

many many thanks for all the info's you are giving to us. I appreciate very much indeed. This thread can not lose momentum. Becous their is valuable and interesting information in here.

__________________
Silver Gorilla
{Investing in Precious Metal Silver} "Within our lifetime, Nothing this good will ever stare you in the face again". Its all about Silver

Ayn Rand never mentioned that reality.

Hi Silver Gorilla. Learning to listen to that little voice in your head can save you a lot of grief sometimes but can also make you a bundle sometimes.

Reminds me of the time I flew to Houston from San Diego It was the winter of 1992, 15 years ago. I was looking for used car parts for which I had buyers waiting.

I took an old rodeo cowboy with me for the help and company. A bear of a guy who was the best professional tile setter anyone could be fortunate to have work on their home. He was third in the nation in bull riding when he called it quits. I asked him why and he said that he found himself underneath a bull that had just thrown him and the bull was furiously trying to get to him, horns a flyin‘. He managed to get away without injury and reflected back on what he was doing with his life. You see in those days, rodeo cowboys who ran the circuit of rodeos around the country didn’t have private planes or converted greyhound busses to get from one event to the next. The payoff for a rodeo winner may have been only a hundred bucks (pun intended) back then. He told me that those who followed the circuit full time would pile into an old gas hog and share the fuel expenses. They slept in cars or on the ground when hotel rooms were out of the question. Also that several would sit around a restaurant table and whoever was a winner would share their winnings with others in paying for food. It was a tight group. And when there were no winners, they would order water and put ketchup and sugar in and drink it just to have something to quiet their growling bellies. This is the side of the early days of rodeos that we don’t hear much about.

About this time you may be asking yourself why they suffered so. I guess it was the thrill of the next rodeo and the camaraderie. The wild ride was their whole lives, not just in the arena.

Back to the story. We flew into the Hobby airport and stayed at the hotel where unbeknownst to us was filled with the gay-lesbian coalition protesting the upcoming election. We got on the hotel elevator with several of these gaudily made up and dressed characters and looked at each other and had to do all we could to stifle our breaking up right then and there. Imagine an old rodeo cowboy being crammed in close quarters like this. I still laugh at that memory. You had to be there.

That evening we went downstairs to the nightclub where there was a group joyously dancing. They were local Texans who were airline stewardesses and stewards. I don’t know why but I got the distinct feeling that here was yet another example of some real Americans enjoying their God given freedoms. Funny how the mind sometimes meanders to surprising thoughts, especially when one has a few drinks under the belt. Texans, what a bunch of wonderful characters.

We went back to our room and started planning the next day. We rented the biggest truck we could find. Optimistic ? You bet !

With our empty truck we cruised the wrecking yards of Houston but found only a couple of things. It was a bleak beginning as we pulled out of Houston that afternoon, headed for San Antonio. I had gone through the yellow pages and talked to several wrecking yard owners and found someone outside of Houston who just may have some things I was looking for.

We pulled into his repair shop unannounced and proceeded to find the owner. It was getting about closing time and the shadows were long everywhere. We discovered that this owner was repairing Mercedes classic cars. Like 300SL gullwings. Some of these restored are worth over a million dollars now. He had huge machines that could take a whole car body and rotate it like on a rotisserie. A Texas sized automotive barbecue.

It was a bit intimidating to stand among this huge operation and focus on the purpose of my quest. I spoke to the owner who was very busy and asked him about the parts I wanted. He took me over to a warehouse where he had about forty of the items I had been searching for. Our truck had only two car parts in the back and echoed failure so far. I don’t know why but he pulled out all of the units, some weighing a hundred pounds, and let me closely inspect them. He said that he might need them in the future and decided to not sell them. He was called away to his office by his staff and we were left there alone to contemplate our next move. My friend said let’s go, nothing here and it was getting late anyhow.

But I had a gut feeling. It was so deep that I didn’t even consciously think about it but acted first and had lots of time to think about it later. It was a uniquely weird feeling like I was being pushed by something undeniable inside.

I went back to the office with my friend and stood there for what seemed like a long time. His office was huge and had glass walls through which I could see him conversing with a group. He would look in our direction from time to time and when he had finished, he came over to us and said, “Well, I guess you really want those parts. Come on.” We went back to the warehouse and negotiated the price. I told him I had cash; that may have greased the wheels a bit. We bought him out and headed on to the next city. Our spirits were lifted considerably and we had hope for the rest of the trip. At least now, the trip had turned profitable whether we found any more items or not.

We searched around in San Antonio. Zilch. We headed north to Austin, same story. Next we headed into Dallas where we picked up a few units. Three cities and little to show for it.

We headed north to Oklahoma City where we once again struck out. Next we headed west until out rental truck just plain died. After sunset, we coasted into a place on the Oklahoma/ New Mexico border. It was called Zero. We were later to find just how appropriate this was. There was an old gas station that had been converted into a eatery. And I use that term loosely. Tums should have been their after dinner mints. The name of the restaurant was the Two Bay Café since they had cemented over the two hydraulic car lifts and converted it into the local feedbag.

After a dubious dinner, we called the rental company for help and they said they would be a while. We went back to the truck parked a short distance from the café. There was a beat up old pickup truck that looked like an abandoned wreck next to our truck and we were about to flip a coin as to who would have to kick the dog out so that each of us would have a place to sleep. We were interrupted by the owner who got in the old wreck and left. We realized that this was another hint of the name Zero.

The two truck finally arrived and it was, you guessed it, another old beater. The driver hooked up to our truck and when he tried to lift the front end off the ground, the front wheels of his tow truck came off the ground and reared up like a horse on its hind legs. I wonder if my rodeo buddy connected with this little bit of irony.

The tow driver said that he would have to get a bigger truck in the morning and we would have to stay somewhere overnight. He took us to the local motel. Here is where it gets a bit like something like the horror pictures of today. The motel had been abandoned for some time and some of the doors were lazily swinging in the dry breeze. It looked like it had been in a war zone. Now that I think of it, it had been in a financial war zone and the struggle for survival was still being fought. The tow driver offered us his place across the street from the “motel” where we could sleep on the floor. It was beginning to feel as though we were heading down the rapids in the movie “Deliverance”. I expected the next words to be uttered, “Yew sure got a purty mouth”.

My buddy and I looked at each other and didn’t need words, although our brains were screaming, Let‘t get the f**k outta here !”. In stereo we told the driver that we needed to get to the next town where there was a motel and a public phone that worked. He took us there and after a good nights rest, he picked us up with a bigger tow truck and our dead rental on the hook. We were heading west several hours to Albuquerque where a replacement truck could be had. There was no middle seat so my buddy sat on a 5 gallon bucket all the way. We were so relieved to be on our way that inconveniences were ignored. The best thing about Zero was leaving there. Turns out our tow driver was a part time comedian and we exchanged jokes, mostly filthy, for the next several hours. Looks like our fears were ill founded but it sure looked ominous the night before.

By the way, I am still trying to write a song about this. I’m calling it “Broke Down In Zero At The Two Bay Café”. Been trying for years but like my other writings, I have to wait until the words come to me.

In Albuquerque we met with the manager with whom I struck up a conversation. He had been associated with the secret service somehow in the past and I told him that a friend of the family had been to our house who trained as well was a senior member of the secret service. For some reason this opened doors and the manager couldn’t do enough for us. He kicked out another customer’s reservation and gave us an air ride diesel truck and had his crew transfer our cargo. It was like the difference between a Pinto and a Cadillac.

We left after once more striking out at the wrecking yards. By now we had a half a load and the only city between us and San Diego was Phoenix. After a long drive we pulled into Phoenix where I had been a few times before in searching for these same car parts. There was a shop that had rows of the parts I needed but the owner would never sell me anything. We visited him once again, a sort of last gasp effort. When we got there, he and several others were sitting outside around an enormous plywood table with sawhorses for support, all under an awning. They were having lunch. I thought, not a good time to deal when a man is eating. I stood at an empty space and stated my wanting to buy his parts. He was negative as he had been in the past. But just then a woman across the table who was nursing a baby piped in and said, “Honey, didn’t you want a forklift ?” It was only then that I realized that I had not been talking to the boss but to her husband. I pulled out a wad of cash and travelers checks and said, “I have about fifteen thousand dollars here and if I don’t buy from you I will buy form somebody else”. He quickly finished the last of his lunch and proceeded to show me all of the parts I wanted.

All the while his teenage son was saying that I was probably going to resell these parts for more money. I hesitated a moment and then agreed that I was going to do just that. This stopped him cold and he backed off to digest this direct answer to what he thought were his accusations that something was not right. It is true; I did sell these parts for more but I was under no obligation to tell him where or how much. That was my specialized knowledge and nobody else’s business and at the core of my making money. It is also at the core of all deal making. Knowing that some item is worth more somewhere else than we are paying. I had the connections and they didn’t. He got the forklift and I made a profit. No coercion is necessary, only to discover what the seller really wants. It may not be money but a dream fulfilled. Deal makers need to listen to what sellers are saying and get to know what they want. They may not even realize it themselves.

I bought everything he had and now the truck was fully loaded.

We rolled into San Diego after a wild and wooly three week trip. My crew processed the parts and I sold them to the waiting buyers. I probably netted about 80 grand after expenses.

Oh, did I mention that this old rodeo cowboy is the great great grandson of Alexander Graham Bell ? I still owe him some old U.S. postage stamps commemorating his ancestor. I am lousy at framing and have been reluctant as well as negligent in getting them to him. I have an open invitation for him and his wife to vacation with my family for a week or two (he lives 1400 miles to the south) and maybe this sending the framed stamps will be the spark that ignites the flame under his butt to come visit us this summer. His son is a good friend of my older son. Sometimes little things can lead to bigger things which can lead to humongous things. I’m not just talking about money and profits but more importantly, relationships. Like successful deal making, relationships require cultivation. No matter how wealthy we are, what are we without any friends or family ? Alone, my friends !

Through the years I have found a few close friends. Looking back, they came about as a result of my working in the automotive field. Not hanging around in bars, not by sitting at home but getting out there and showing the world what we are made of. The kind of friends we accumulate are a reflection of ourselves. This is the greatest wealth of all.

To have a friend you have to first be a friend.

Best wishes,

agnut

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
Mark Twain

she did it herself-- she made up this fiction that she called "objectivism," based on the counterfeit reality of her novels, turned it into a "philosophy" (cult) and sold it alongside her novels thus creating a "movement" to sustain her. Lots of passive income streams there starting with the copyrights!

kind of reminds me of a cult made up by one John Paul Rosenberg aka "Werner Erhard" known as EST that was also big in the 80s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard

damn if I'm not a genius, here is the current endorsed werner website:
http://www.working-minds.com/werner.htm

here is one link away-same website-- loaded with Ayn Rand crap
http://www.working-minds.com/index.htm
http://www.working-minds.com/AynRand.htm

Yes, this Erhard clown was tight with Scientology, till Hubbard put him on his hit list.

What does this have to do with bartering and horse trading? I' m just illustrating how some frauds make their money: invent a new cult!

This is a wonderfull thread.


You guys have talked about buying storage units at auctions. Ive tried looking for these but cant find any. Where am i suppose to look to find these??

Look in your newspaper classifieds for a section called Auctions. You might also try calling several storage places to ask if they hold auctions. Also, try calling the Moving & Storage businesses in your area. Some of them hold annual auctions to clear out unpaid accounts.

__________________
You don't need a weather man To know which way the wind blows. Bob Dylan

Thanks agnut that was very very interesting and fun to read as I was reading on, I got to the part on {Like successful deal making, relationships require cultivation. No matter how wealthy we are, what are we without any friends or family ? Alone, my friends !} I realy respect you agnut.
Understanding a true relationship..................................
The human facts are that most people set out to enjoy their business life where they can, and one of the pleasures is to do business or relate to people whose company one enjoys, whose abilities one respects, and, perhaps most importantly whom one trusts. People are if you like the cement and in some cases even the bricks of the relationship. Thanks agnut we need more posts from you.....

__________________
Silver Gorilla
{Investing in Precious Metal Silver} "Within our lifetime, Nothing this good will ever stare you in the face again". Its all about Silver

Great thread,
I'm learning and applying some of these things.

An area that I dont' think has been well covered (aside from the Camry/Volvo example) is the status that we place on automobiles. I've always owned used cars and will continue that plan. I have a '99 F350 ford crew cab. It had 139,000 on it when I bought it. If it had been a diesel, it should have sold for almsost 20,000. But it's the v10 gasser and an XL version with only option of air conditioning. Plus it was a 5 speed and had some dents on the rear fenders. I paid $7000 for it and have put 170,000 more miles on it. I picked up a used bed on the drive home from texas for $500.00 and had myself a 14,000 truck for about $9000 total. There is a time when the extra power of a diesel is needed, but a v10 will perform 95% of the jobs needed for any pickup truck. Buying Function over Form is something to remember. What is the function that I desire or need. Your Camry over the new Volvo is a perfect example. So many people are caught up in the status and image of money.

But of couse having a good income, a nice place to live and a decent retirement are important.

The motorcycles in my avatar are another example.
I have 4 of them, of which only 2500 were made. My hopes had been to find a mechanic to restore them and then to resell them. But thus far, I've not been able to find such a mechanic. If I part them out, I'd be sure to clear $10,000, but I'd rather sell them whole and make a few thousand. I guess that's my weakness.

Hi Scorpio. Thanks for your contribution. Maybe some readers will look into construction and office supply auctions. There are also city and county and state auctions going on all the time.

Your example of the additional scrap value is another opportunity to watch for in deal making. Someone throwing away an old transmission may contain 20 or more pounds of aluminum. I have hauled several truck loads of aluminum transmission casings to the recycler. Some good vacation money there. Also the core transmission itself may be worth more than that to a rebuilder like myself.

It has been difficult to find the time to answer posts lately as I have been in the middle of opening a transmission rebuilding business. Some timing, eh ? With the stock markets and Yen carry trade unwinding, liquidity may tighten to the extent that nobody has much money even to fix their cars. I was aware of this potential long before I began this venture. So why did I proceed anyway ?

It has to do with the nature of my specialty. I don’t work on customers cars but instead build on production line and ship to AAMCO and other transmission chains and repair shops. I began building manual transmissions in 1971 so am an old timer at this. My experience has taught me that even in bad times, people will have to fix their cars. It may slow down in sales volume but I also intend to sell parts to the shops that can repair these types of transmissions themselves. In bad times transmission shops need to keep their rebuilders busy or they may quit. I sold transmission hard parts for several years and it was a quite profitable sideline that made up for the drop in sales of rebuilt units in a tight economy.

I have 12 transmissions rebuilt now and another 15 cleaned and waiting to be assembled. Additionally I have about 150 more transmission cores that can be rebuilt.

Here is my problem. If I price my units too high I will get no sales. And if I price my units too low I won’t make much profit per unit. Additionally, the too low price is no guarantee that I will have sales volume increase to compensate. People are funny and may be suspicious of the low prices and not buy from me. I will also have to build a lot more units if I were to sell them cheap. The large scale national competition is at $900 for early and $1100 late models with core prices at $250 and $350 respectively.

A local shop is at $500 for early models and $50 core price. Quite the discrepancy. I don’t know why the local competition is so cheap; they can’t be making much profit per unit. Maybe I should call them and see if they have late units at the same price. I could buy theirs and sell them elsewhere. If I didn’t return the cores for the $50, they would be out of these units to continue their rebuild program in short order. This would effectively put them out of business for the late units. You see, the late cores cost me $250 and the parts to rebuild them ranges from $150 to $275. Buying from this local shop would cost me outright $550 whereas my own cost to do the same would cost between $$400 and $525. And he would be doing the rebuilding and the warranting. Just a thought.

This transmission pricing dilemma is a lot more complex than simply buying bargains and reselling them for more. I have posted these details to show readers that some businesses should be avoided unless they have considerable experience.

The main topic of this thread is to show others the simplest and easiest ways to save money and next to make money in deal making. My younger son and I regularly go to garage sales and estate sales. He has been watching me buy all types of items and has hardly bought anything himself. What he has bought have been real bargains and I tease him calling him Shylock. He asked me how I knew when an item was a real bargain that could be sold for a profit later. I told him that through experience in knowing approximately what something cost new and how much demand there was for it would help determine what it could be sold for. There are other factors such as condition that add into the equation.

Also very important is that “gut feeling” that something is a steal. It has almost always been correct for me. Then I turned to him and told him that the items he bought were great deals and asked him why he bought them. He said that they looked like they were great deals. He also said that he felt that there was little to lose and much to gain. He was using his gut feelings.

Last Saturday my son and I saw an ad in the paper for a class A 24’ motor home for $150. I thought it must have been a wreck. I called anyway and found out that the owner had parked it a couple of years ago and it had only 50K miles on it. He also had just put 6 new tires on at over $1000. It also has a 4.5 Kohler generator. I told him that I would be down to buy it if he would wait until I got there. He said that there was a man looking at it right then and had gotten 24 phone calls so far. I told him that I would pay $200 sight unseen if he would hold it. The man looking at the motor home said that he already had one motor home and would let me have first call and he would buy it if I did not. My son and I hustled down there and immediately paid the man. Before we could sign the title a phone caller was trying to get the seller to back out of the deal but he said it was too late. He hung up and we finished the paperwork. I thought that was the end of it until this phone caller arrived unannounced and said that he had been the first phone caller that morning. I guess he thought this implied some kind of seniority. All I could think was, “You snooze, you lose”. There was nothing he could do but leave. He had tried to turn his own error in showing up late into anger at the seller for somehow not holding this motor home for him with no promise or deposit. Boy, this guy was no deal maker. He couldn’t even blame himself for his own actions. If you can’t take the responsibility for your own actions, how can you learn and grow ?

Anyway, the motor home will be either started or towed to my shop where my son and I will fix it up and use it or sell it for a profit. It may make a good bug out vehicle but that is not what I got it for.

I had a gut feeling after talking to the owner on the phone. And I ACTED on it. I found out that it had run well when parked, it had low miles on it, it had a high quality generator, it had $1000 of new tires, the body was straight. That was the reason that I offered more than he was asking in order to hold it until we could get there. I have used this technique before and made deals that I may have otherwise lost. When successful, this is like putting down a deposit over the phone. Sometimes sellers will hold an item until I can get a look at it; I don’t even have to offer to pay more than they are asking. I ask them to promise to hold the item until I arrive. This motor home was an extreme case and required some extreme action on my part.

When I got there, the motor home was a bit dirty on the outside as I had expected. This always works in the buyer’s favor. Unless kept inside, a vehicle that has been stored can’t be expected to be washed and waxed regularly. However, he had put it up on blocks to protect the 6 large tires (new Michelins, my favorite brand). An indication of his care for his possessions. Always remember to look at the seller and understand what kind of person he is. This is regarding large items like cars, boats, houses and other items of which the care taken is part of what you are buying. It may seem to be an intangible but believe me, it won’t seem so intangible when you get the item home and discover that it ain’t what you thought you bought.

I much prefer to buy vehicles in need of repair than ones running on their last legs. That is, as long as the value is more than I paid plus had to put into it. For instance a running truck with 140K miles on it may be selling for $3,000 while the same truck needing an engine and transmission rebuild may be $500. I could have the engine and transmission rebuilt for $2500 and have a vehicle that will serve me for many years. Or I could rebuild it myself for less than $1,000.

The tendency for most people is to buy the $3,000 truck and drive it until the engine stops. Now it needs rebuilding and they may as well do the transmission since they are not known to last far beyond the high mileage. Now they have $5,000 in it. And they wonder why they always lose when buying used cars.

Maybe now you will see why I don’t usually buy running cars. Well, unless they are such a steal that I can’t resist. I will talk about cars, boats and other transportation in depth when I get the time. Cars are a pretty big deal in most of our lives and should be understood. Most of my past customers didn’t know anything about their cars. And some were even proud of their ignorance like it was beneath them to know about mechanics. People are funny critters.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hi Anty Ep I guess one’s opinion of what rich is is central to your post.

If having millions of dollars in assets and no debts is rich, I will probably never be rich from manual working. I don’t want to work that hard in my occupation of rebuilding transmissions. Long ago I learned that I could either work hard or work smart. My labor pays about $60 to $70 per hour, maybe more. My bills per month require that I rebuild and sell about 8 transmissions per month. That’s two per week. Ideally I could go in and work one day per week and take the other six days off. At the other extreme I could work 6 days per week and net an extra $5,000 per week before taxes. That would work out to an extra $250,000 per year and after taxes I could keep about $175,000 beyond my living expenses.

I have been there before and let me tell you, it is not all peaches and cream. Sacrificing one’s peace of mind and free time in a headlong rush to get “rich” can have devastating consequences to relationships and health.

My two sons are depending on my success for their futures. We are very close and communicate about goals and what is important to our lives. I don’t want them going out in the world to flip hamburgers for minimum wages. They are both being trained in what they want to do. I intend to turn over my transmission shop to my older son in a couple of years if all goes well. I only opened it because my son wants to learn mechanics. It is a high paying occupation and an even better paying one in some specialties. We don’t even work on cars except our own. Why ? Because there are so many types of cars out there and keeping up with all of their idiosyncrasies can be mind boggling as well as expensive with the specialized tools needed.

We have decided what is of primary importance and that is our time together. No amount of money can replace that. However, I am well aware that I could work hard for a predetermined time period, say one year, and invest the money wisely and take it easier in the future. What is important is that my sons would understand this and agree to sacrifice our free time on order to build savings for investment. But only for a specified time period. After that period I would either slow down or sell the business and take payments for several years. I did this with a business many years ago.



You stated, “if you can FIND a cashflow that has not yet been identified and routinized and exploited by specialists, then you got yerself an idea worth following up on. but then you got to figure out how to strip it out of whatever it's bundled up with, and then figure out how to exploit it, then figure out how to build a business where you train other people to do it for you. then you go do it and you become rich.”

I agree with the first part in that identifying a cash flow and exploiting it can be one way of building a fortune. I have also done this successfully but my marriage suffered due to the necessity of my being so busy. My ex wife couldn’t understand why I had to be absent so much. But paradoxically, she wanted me to make a lot of money. You can’t have your cake and eat it too when building a fortune. Now after having made a fortune, you could sit back and have some wise investments pay the bills. Other than precious metals I don’t see too many other options out there right now.

I have always said that people work for money, work with money or money works for them. Most people work for money; a job Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. Some others work with money. They could be businesses or dealing in investments. The businesses can take a lot of time and are much like working for money although the profits may be higher. The investments like trading in stocks, although maybe not time intensive or laborious, can be nerve wracking. I have no interest in that since peace of mind and direct control are of primary importance. The third, money working for someone, has become unstable in my opinion. No longer can the small investor expect to receive bond interest beyond inflation plus taxation. There are other places to park investment money but one must factor in the risk of loss of principal. The financial world is in turmoil at this time in history. At least that is the way I see it.

This bartering and horse trading thread was begun with small steps of wisely purchasing necessities with existing income. It is an easy passive activity of squeezing the buck for as much as possible. The next level is finding bargains and selling them for more. This can be large or small. I knew a lady several years ago who bought and sold antiques. She operated out of her home and made about $200K per year. She traveled to Europe often in searching for these antiques and enjoyed this as a side benefit. You see, her business provided her wants as well as her needs. She was working with money and having a ball. Conversely, someone else could be miserable doing the same thing because their wants and needs may be totally different. This is what I call the predefined parameters in which we all must know before we sally forth in a new venture.

In my case, I don’t want to travel any more. I also want to work when I want and to be able to go fishing with my sons when I want. That is why I don’t work on peoples’ cars but rather have a production line with rebuilt units on the floor ready to be shipped. When these are sold I can replace them when I see fit. If I didn’t have these units already rebuilt and orders came in, I would be under the gun to get them rebuilt right away. That would necessitate my losing control of my free time. I don’t mind working odd hours or on the weekend as long as I have control of when I work. My customers will call me 9 to 5 Monday to Friday but I will forward the calls to my cell phone when I am out fishing. You see, I have designed my business to suit my needs. It also works for my customers’ needs; in fact, I learned long ago that when a customer calls for a transmission and I can tell him that I have it already rebuilt in stock, my sales about doubled. Also, it is an easier initial sale and repeat business when the customer learns that I have an inventory ready to go.

Another point in a business is what perceptions we give to the customers. If I told them that I would have to rebuild what they wanted and it would take several days and then more days until it arrived at their door, I would sound like a fly by night business. So having a full inventory ready to go tells them that I will in all likelihood be around to honor my warrantee if necessary. This is very important in my specialty. You see, I know my customers and what they are thinking. I am ahead of them and know all the answers before they ask the questions.

As I said before, I am also preparing to sell hard parts out of these transmissions. I already have a website name registered and will set it up soon. I see hard times coming and there will be a larger market for these parts when shop owners need to have their builders kept busy. I have done this for many years and besides the additional profit, it has the benefit of being a full service operation. I used to sell 5th gear sets to shops for $100. I only paid $75 for the whole transmissions and these 5th gear sets were a surplus I didn’t need for my rebuilding production line. So this was all pure profit.

Maybe that was a cash flow I had identified and took advantage of.

My type of business requires perfection. I have told my employees that when you go to school and get a 99% on a test, you get an A and everyone is impressed. But a 99% in mechanics is a failure. There is no backup for anything in a transmission; you either do it 100% right or not at all. You can’t tell a customer who complains that the third gear jumps out or howls that you will refund him 20% since 80% of my rebuilt transmission 5 speed works fine. This is one of the reasons that I want no employees; I want to be responsible for what I do myself and not for some hung over employee with marital problems. My last business 10 years ago had as many as12 employees and a weekly payroll of $6,600. Imagine how it would feel if no sales came in for a week. A bad economy or sloppy employee work can be devastating. And with 12 employees, there were lots of internal politics going on too. A big ugh !

So here I am with a little business. It took a long time to learn that this was what I needed all along. I was never happy with a large business; in fact I was too busy to realize that I was miserable. In a headlong quest for the “almighty dollar” we can easily become a personal failure. And this almighty dollar expression will pass into ridicule like “not worth a continental”.

I hope this internal view of a business will teach readers to carefully consider the parameters in which they will be happy. If you want a business, you should own it and not let it own you.

So what is rich ? Being anxious to get to work. Having free time when wanted. Enough to pay the bills and some left over for savings.

A good business should be like making sweet, sweet love, but if it hurts, you are doing something wrong.

Best wishes,

agnut

Hi Silver Gorilla. It has been a pleasure in contributing to this thread. I also am learning right along with you. It never seems to end, does it ? The more I know, the more opportunities I discover. It may not be exactly what others post but it jogs the memory and imagination to a plethora (been waiting to use that big word for a long time) of new deal makings.

I have been scattered lately in many directions. Reminds me of the old cowboy saying (that I made up. Could be plagiarized though. Hope any lawyers aren‘t reading this. Ya never know), “He had so many irons in the fire that he put the fire out”. HaHa Been there, done that. Burnout happens from time to time but it can also be a positive when standing back and looking at the whole picture of what my ultimate goals are. To get ahead and therefore be able to buy time and freedom from the drudgery of bare existence. And to acquire real wealth for the future.

Lately I have been seeing financial advisors recommending to get out of some of their cash and stocks and not only have precious metals but also tangible goods. This thread addresses this and we should be mindful of the tangible goods we have acquired at all times. Are they items that will hold or increase their value in the future ? In other words, even though we are buying and selling we should always be looking to the future. Of course, these items should be turned as quickly as possible. Time can do some awful things to some items like holding art in a crashing scenario. History has taught us that art loses in a liquidity crunch. This also applies to cars, houses, and many possessions.

So what goes up or at least holds its value ? Tough question and I have been pondering it for some time. If fuel prices are anticipated to rise dramatically, high mileage cars may do well. I have three diesel VWs out back that I paid a few hundred bucks each. In a fuel price rise or shortage, these cars disappear from the classified ads. And then buyers are highly motivated and have to pay more since supply/demand has been turned on its head.They are a diversification for the future as well as work for me and my son if transmission sales slow down as a result of a bad economy. I don’t see how I can lose money on them in most scenarios. Gas high mileage cars should also be good.

Another item that may be a good idea is an old cheap motor home. I saw in the past that when the public sees a tight time coming, they would buy and/or fix up their backup housing. When the market crashed in 1987, my transmission shop had about 10 calls for VW bus transmissions. This was so unusual that I asked a customer why this was happening. And he replied rather obviously that VW bus owners were getting ready if they lost their apartments and had to hit the road. I didn’t see this coming since I was doing quite well at this time.

Important here to put yourself into the mindset of the man on the street and anticipate what he may need to do to protect himself. You might be able to get the jump on a new demand increase.

Gotta go; lots of work waiting. Exciting times. The anticipation is excruciating; hope it lasts.

Best wishes,

Agnut

low startup cost. raising fuel prices is a certainty. wide customer base of all ages who are not fat or sickly. environmentally friendly. wtshtf can only increase demand.

Hi TonyG. For a short post you sure loaded it with a lot to think about. Your Ford crew cab sounds like a profitable deal. Have you thought about selling it and buying a cheaper truck and pocketing the difference ?

Maybe it’s about time to think about what some call our second largest expense, transportation. Of course, it doesn’t have to be so; it is fortunately up to us and the ways to make cars work for us rather than working for cars. I see new cars all over the road and point them out to my sons and they now understand this function over form attitude.

Who cares what strangers think of what we drive ? I don’t. I have to live with my expenses and strangers contribute nothing. A new car tells the world that we are successful ? Well, to most non thinkers it does. It tells me that the owners care about what others think more than the heavy burden of monthly payments and being in debt. I have owned hundreds of cars and only made payments twice. Both times left a bad taste in my mouth. One I got rid of and the other I paid off and kept. I don’t like having a car that I don’t own.

Someone here once said that the most expensive perfume in the world was that new car smell. I have to laugh every time I remember that.

And to those who say that some who have new cars have paid cash for them, I say that they are as thoughtless if not more so. Why ? Well, imagine that you had the resources to buy a new $30,000 car for cash. Now you have this nice car in your driveway. It has lost several thousand dollars the day you drove it off the dealer’s lot. Because it is new, you are paying full insurance for it. I don’t have collision insurance on any of my cars, even the Jaguars. Why ? Because their scrap value after an accident isn’t much below what they were worth before being totaled. It is a balance between the cost of the added insurance against the possible loss. You can’t do that with a new car. A new car totaled would lose almost all of its scrap value whereas I may lose only a few hundred dollars.

This huge financial consideration is what accountants call lost opportunity cost. The $30,000 spent in a cash paid for new car could be invested elsewhere. For instance, if you had two years ago bought silver, you would be ahead in a big way. Silver averaged about 40 % increases in EACH of the last two years. Brother, that is some lost opportunity cost !

However, that $30,000 car sitting in your driveway that you bought two years ago is now worth maybe $20,000. And even if you sold it now, the $20,000 is worth less, thanks to inflation. By the way, have you noticed all the late model cars for sale ? They are everywhere. In the newspapers, on the internet, parked on busy streets. Why is that ? Hmmm…

And what do you think will happen to these late cars with payments due when the economy heads south in a big way ? Same as housing. No intelligent buyer wants to catch a falling knife and will wait until the dust settles and the bottom is established. A while back there was a photo of a guy trying to sell his car right after the market crash in 1929. The sign said something like, “Lost in the market. Car for sale $250”.

For those reading this, I would welcome feedback on what they are driving and how they feel about what money they have invested. With the economy being fragile and looming possibility of a serious downturn, it may be time to appraise this situation and sell your car especially if you have payments and find a cheap reliable car. I know it is a matter of choice but feel that this needed to be put on front of readers’ noses before the coming “liquidity crisis” takes hold. Because late cars may lose much of their resale value as well as being hard to find a buyer even at these lower prices in such a scenario. In a depression environment, having a new car with payments may seem like a smaller version of having a house with payments. Both depressing on your finances.

A few months ago I sold my 1992 Dodge diesel truck and bought a 1973 Chevy 4X4 truck. I got $6,000 for the Dodge and paid $1,000 for the Chevy, pocketing 5 grand in the process. Sure, the Chevy doesn’t get the mileage of the Dodge diesel but I don’t put enough miles on it to justify leaving the value sitting around. It is a judgment call and it works for me. This is just an example of a way of thinking that makes my transportation work for me instead of the other way around.

I know that many readers may feel justified in saying that they need a new car in order to have reliable transportation. First, new cars break down too. The dealer warrantees them but you are still inconvenienced. Admittedly, they may be more reliable than a $1,000 used car but you have to ask yourself if the investment difference is worth it. I have owned scads of used cars and have rarely had breakdowns. Also, you could have a couple of cheap used cars and keep them both registered and only insure the one you are driving. If it gives problems you can transfer your insurance to the other car and be up and running right away. That is what I do and have backup cars waiting.

As I have said before, I don’t buy a used car that I can’t resell for more than I paid. It is yet another category of bargain hunting.

TonyG, your 4 motorcycles remind me of my nephew who owns several Harley frames and a garage full of parts. He sat on them for years and only now has begun to liquidate them. I talked with him recently and told him that in a bad economy/liquidity crunch, he may have a hard time in selling them at all and that he should envision where he would be in this possible future. The same applies to your 4 motorcycles. Only you can determine what course to take. If you sit on them for more money or have them repaired, you may lose in time. Your holding out for an extra couple of thousand dollars could be a big mistake. You might want to write down the options with the pluses and minuses and weigh them and thus make up your mind. At least you will have made a decision that you believe you can live with before the future tells you which decision was the better one.

Most anything I have is for sale if the price is right. It is an attitude that has worked well for me for many years. A while back I sold an enamel on copper painting that I had originally purchased for $75. It was a limited reproduction of a famous Picasso painting. I saw someone trying to sell one on Ebay for $2,000 but had no takers. I sold mine for $510 and am quite content as well as surprised. I have two more similar paintings and intend to sell them as well. Why, even though I love them ? Simple. The money is more important to me than the art. Maybe an analogy is in order here.

The body needs blood flowing throughout all parts in order to remain healthy and ward off disease as well as parasites. The air we breathe needs to be as pure and oxygenated as possible. If inadequate food is taken in, the body consumes stored fat and muscle and loses reserves. If the wrong types of food are consumed, the body cannot turn it into the kinds of elements which maintain optimum strength of the organs. Some foods although seeming sweet can actually break down bodily health and misallocate resources.

The blood is like the money we need flowing through our lives, supplying our needs. The air is like the thoughts and attitudes we have, creating a clean, unpolluted mind. The disease is like fiat currency as well as all the untruths swirling around us. And the parasites ? Well, you get offers for all kinds of credit card offers in the mail, don’t you ? And the boob tube has a lot of ads about loans, doesn’t it ? The stored fat and excess muscle are like savings for the future. The mental food (food for thought) we choose to take in determines whether we are inviting parasites (borrowing) into our bodies. The sweets, although they may taste good when taking in but are bad for our health, are borrowing money before we can afford buying things with cash. Too many sweets and either a sugar high follows (and you know what happens when you come down from that, depression like when the bills come due) or a diabetic coma results. The latter is like bankruptcy, aka financial death.

It is a whole package in which any one is neglected results in less than optimum fitness and therefore performance. With no blood flow we are financially dead; this is why I consider it so important. You can make a lot of money but without the self constraint to wisely control consumption, you are not storing up savings for the future.

Admittedly it is not easy to think of what the future will be like and act now on those beliefs but this is the only way we will not be kicking ourselves later rather than still having a lot of devalued junk in the midst of financial disaster. But at least if you try, you will be able to say that you saw it coming and did your best to protect yourself. No regrets.

Best wishes and JMHO,

agnut

We own nothing in this world but only have use of it for a time, for we are mortal.

Enjoy what you have but don’t get too attached to it. Only people and living things are worth getting attached to.